Updated
"I didn't see a thing. Anyway, what about all of the women who sexually harass men. Are you doing a story on that?"
This is the response from one of the dozens of men who worked for decades with Don Burke.
Our conversations over the past month provided extraordinary insights into the gendered responses to allegations of indecent assault.
Most took the opportunity to unload after decades of bullying.
"He set out to destroy people," one man said.
"Psychopathic or sociopathic, not sure which," according to a former manager.
"Well, he hit me once over the head, really hard," a sound assistant said. "But he was worse with women. He was a monster."
Many regretted their years of inaction. But not one would go on the record.
"I've got a family to feed," was the common refrain. (To which my reply was, "What about the women who've spoken out. Don't they need to eat, as well?")
Perhaps the most telling responses came from the camera and sound operators who'd spent decades on the road with the show.
I've been wondering whether they were victims or enablers. Or was going along with it all simply a symptom of the Boys Club?
Dr Michael Flood from the Queensland University of Technology says men tend to overestimate other men's comfort with sexual harassment.
"Men are less likely than women to recognise it as a problem: they define harassment more narrowly than women, see harassing behaviour as 'normal' or 'harmless' or 'fun', are more tolerant of unwanted sexual behaviour, blame victims more, and fail to recognise harassment's impact on victims," he writes.
Consequently, they fear how other men would react if they intervened.
In other words, they don't want to upset the codes of mateship.
Sexual harassment 'normalised'
Years later, Burke's long-time camera operator is a broken man. He was teary on the phone this week talking about Bridget Ninness, who reached a settlement with Burke's production company after claiming she was bullied relentlessly.
Still, he refuses to speak on camera about what he saw.
Interestingly, a longtime colleague of Burke opted for fight instead of flight, offering the quote at the top of this story.
According to the Australian Human Rights Commission, female harassment of men accounts for only 14 per cent of all cases.
Yet this was his line of defence.
"I'd be interested in covering such stories if you could share them with me," I replied, after taking a deep breath.
"Er, well, I don't know any," he said. "But women can be bullies, too. And, you know, not all men are sexual harassers."
UTS academic Jenna Price says this reeks of deflection.
"Every time we say 'not all men, not all women', we deflect from the seriousness and the prevalence of sexual harassment, which has now been normalised," she says.
"Whatever your experience, acknowledge the experience of others, particularly those who have been hurt and damaged."
Men socialised to see women as objects
It's too simplistic to categorise these men as victims or enablers. They worked in an environment of toxic masculinity, the dog-eat-dog world of commercial television. And they were socialised to see women as objects.
But there are actions they could have taken.
"This means calling out sexist attitudes and behaviours with your mates, colleagues or family," CEO of Our Watch, Mary Barry, says.
"It may be a little awkward, yes. But if your actions save even one woman from being sexually harassed or assaulted, it's an uncomfortable minute well spent."
These are also important messages for our sons.
"We need to teach young men that they don't need to conform to antiquated models of masculinity," Dannielle Miller, the founder of Goodfellas, writes.
"What's interesting is that when we unpack these models (by discussing men and emotion, what defines real strength, how they can be ethical bystanders when they see acts of violence or harassment etc.), they show an obvious sense of relief."
Perhaps it would also improve their eyesight, as well as their insight.
Since our discussion a month ago, the aforementioned colleague suddenly remembers seeing Burke's behaviour.
"It really was as bad as they're saying in the papers," he's telling colleagues. "Dunno how I worked in that environment for so long."
He's not alone.
Tracey Spicer is a journalist and author.
Topics: sexual-offences, sexuality, work, women, social-media, media, television, australia
First posted