“I think we should be careful with public shaming as a rule. Why does anyone get to be the moral arbiter? Public shaming cannot be the primary mechanism because it will come for all of us,” continues Minchin.

“Not just the straight white guy, not just the rich colonialist, but also anyone marginalised, non-binary, gay, lesbian, eventually everyone gets their turn.”

In a wide-ranging conversation, Minchin also takes issue with “wokeness” admitting he has previously been guilty of what he calls “performative righteousness.”

“It is just performing your righteousness to your own people, and I know this because I did it for years, and I didn’t realise I did it until I stopped and asked myself: why am I posting about Trump and Brexit, and who am I?” Minchin says.

“Whose mind am I trying to change? I’m an artist. If you’re going to tackle it, put it in your freaking work.”

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Minchin is no stranger to sharing his opinions on “performative righteousness”. Last year, the Matilda composer reportedly described the three actors at the centre of a furore for wearing traditional keffiyeh scarves at the opening night of Sydney Theatre Company’s production of The Seagull as living in leftie glass bubbles.

Minchin denies making the comments, and there are no direct quotes or audio. However, on the Good Weekend Talks podcast, he does address his frustrations with the nature of public debate in 2024.

“I would consider myself a left-leaning social progressive, I mean, I’m supposed to be a leftie, right? But I find the way my ostensibly progressive friends act kind of appalling because I don’t think it’s progressive to call anyone you disagree with a fascist,” says Minchin.

“It’s as if they deliberately switch off empathy for someone because they’re a race or gender that they view as an oppressor, not an oppressed.”

Tim Minchin’s first non-fiction book, You Don’t Have to Have a Dream (Advice for the Incrementally Ambitious), is available now.

Good Weekend Talks offers readers the chance to dive deep into the definitive stories of the day, exploring the events and individuals capturing the interest of Australians, through weekly conversations with an array of special guests. Listen to more episodes by subscribing to Good Weekend Talks wherever you get your podcasts.

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