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The head of the federal government department tasked with overseeing Parliament House has flatly denied he was in a relationship with his deputy while he was her boss.
But in testimony at Senate estimates that has gone for hours, secretary of the Department of Parliamentary Services Rob Stefanic has refused to say if he had a relationship with Cate Saunders either before or after they worked together.
It has also emerged in the hearings that Ms Saunders received an exit package of more than $315,000 when she retired from the public service last year.
One Nation senator Malcolm Roberts repeatedly asked Mr Stefanic if he had been in a relationship with Ms Saunders, to which the secretary initially said he would not address questions about his personal privacy, which he said had been "considerably violated" since reports of a relationship emerged in recent weeks.
Senator Roberts told Mr Stefanic that if he answered the question it would clear up the matter.
After a lengthy pause in which Mr Stefanic spoke with his new deputy, Jaala Hinchcliffe, he said: "To that end, I'll give you a simple answer and that is no."
When asked if he had been in a relationship with Ms Saunders when not her boss, the secretary told Mr Roberts that was "simply not relevant".
Mr Stefanic told senators that in August 2022 he disclosed a conflict of interest about Ms Saunders to the head of the public service but only did so in response to gossip and rumours that were swirling at Parliament House.
Senators quiz boss about deputy's secondment
Under questioning from Liberal senator Jane Hume, he confirmed that there was no documentation of that declaration.
Mr Stefanic said there was discussion with the head of the public service commission about Ms Saunders working at another agency but he insisted he had no role in overseeing her secondment.
Senate estimates heard it was about eight months before Ms Saunders moved to Services Australia in April 2023.
Mr Stefanic said it was not until June 2023 that he disclosed the conflict of interest to the parliament's presiding officers — Speaker Milton Dick and Senate President Jane Hume.
Estimates heard that Ms Saunders went on a six-month secondment to Services Australia but entered talks to receive an "incentive to retire" payment four months into her posting.
According to the Public Service Commission, an incentive to retire payment allows an agency head or senior executive public servant to gain a payment to retire.
While Ms Saunders remained a permanent DPS employee, Mr Stefanic delegated powers to the chief executive of Services Australia to negotiate with Ms Saunders about her retirement package. He told estimates that he did not disclose his conflict to Services Australia.
Ms Hinchcliffe told estimates while Services Australia negotiated the exit payment, it was ultimately paid by DPS. She confirmed the total payment Ms Saunders received was more than $315,000.
Mr Stefanic said he was unaware if Services Australia or Ms Saunders initiated the conversations about an incentive to retire payment.
DPS secretary questioned about culture
The ABC News yesterday revealed DPS was facing accusations of a toxic culture, the silencing of dissent and the routine cover-up of problems.
Yet efforts to scrutinise DPS are limited thanks to the department being exempt from freedom of information (FOI) laws.
The revelations have highlighted the opaque nature in which the DPS is allowed to operate, where the only documents released are done so at the department's discretion.
Senators quizzed Mr Stefanic about DPS's culture and accusations of toxicity, which he dismissed as unsubstantiated allegations.
When Senator Roberts put to Mr Stefanic that security staff had raised their concerns about the department with him, the DPS boss said that "staff that tend to approach senators are usually those that have a grievance".
Greens senator Barbara Pocock later told Mr Stefanic that she was "shocked" at that answer.
Independent senator David Pocock told the hearing that he had been told that DPS had a culture where "if you speak up, things don't work out that well for you".
Ms Hinchcliffe, who joined DPS from the National Anti-Corruption Commission, replied that she was "concerned" to hear that.
Senate President Sue Lines also told the hearing that staff should raise concerns with a union or the parliament's workplace support service.
The hearing continues.